Hi there readers! I wanted to start by quickly saying how much I’m enjoying everyone’s comments in the weekly discussion threads. I haven’t been able to participate in those discussions as much as I’d like (summer with three kids aged ~9, 6, and 3 is
I live just outside DC and it’s been especially cool to be reading this book alongside visiting the Capitol and the Arlington House at the cemetery (Robert E Lee’s home) this past week. I also find myself reading this book with Google Maps open half the time — Seward’s hometown, the Blair House, even Lincoln’s place in Springfield. Infusing reading with 3D/virtual visits to these places has made for a great holistic read!
Yes that makes such a difference seeing those places in person! One of my great memories from childhood is visiting Springfield and seeing all the Lincoln sites. Pretty amazing.
A few things jumped out to me this week: Lincoln and Seward are pretty much opposites. I hate all the political shenanigans that go on, then and now. How shrewd and self-controlled Lincoln was. I never knew that there had been fear about the electoral college vote being disrupted in 1860. It makes you think
I also did not know there was almost a storming of the capitol to stop the count…it’s crazy to think how much things don’t change. It’s also a reminder that we’ve been through turbulent times many times over. If only we had a Lincoln…
Something that amazes me is how the South, state by state, seceded. Goodwin doesn’t say how it was done. All along I saw this as largely a political difference being argued out in Washington and in the newspapers and in campaign speeches. She mentions a few Senators resigning their seats and going home. Then suddenly the South has a capital city, a President, and a standing army of thousands ready to go to war. I realize this is a political history so far and from the Northern perspective, but I could use some help in understanding how this secession was done. I’ve read a few Civil War histories, but they were military histories with the usual baffling accounts of the 9th Army marching to confront the 12th Division of Regulars and so on. Maps with arrows. This book is really interesting and so well written, but I’m missing the explanation of secession.
My understanding is that an Article of Succession is introduced into the state legislature. Delegates or current members of the legislature debate the Article, then it's voted on. If passed, it goes to the governor and, if signed, the state then declares itself no longer part of the Union.
There have been debates at a number of times arguing if it is Constitutional for a state that has been admitted to the Union to succeed. I don't know if this question has been fully answered by a court of law.
The above is my understanding and I could be mistaken. If I am mistaken, please someone correct me.
We can read the speeches by Sens. Clay, Calhoun, and Webster on the Compromise of 1850. We can also read Douglas' speech where he offered his "compromise". I would have liked to have been in the chamber to hear, first hand, those giants of American history address Congress.
What would it have been like to hear one or more of the Lincoln-Douglas debates for the senate seat?
Lincoln is so diverse in skill and ability. Goodwin alluded to this in the intro chapter, but these latest chapters crystalize his subtle genius. His ability to foreshadow how things would go and how people would act is almost unsettling. He's a strategist and behavior scientist all wrapped into an unassuming package with high confidence. "He craved the opportunity to accomplish important deeds that would benefit his fellows." Thank goodness for that. He just knew how things needed to go.
It was interesting that when offered cabinet positions, several of his opponents took the "stick it in your ear" stance, really for no other reason than being sore losers. Yet they realized the importance of serving despite the initial power play. I can't - but I must. I won't - but I will. When you think forward to the soldier experience that would come with the war, and the unbending commitment of many - I WILL fight for my cause...these guys end up looking like spoiled children. Seward's expectation that he would essentially pick the cabinet?! ...like Lincoln would hold the title but he would wholly serve the function? Disturbing.
The last thing that caught my eye: in the middle of page 286, Bates comments that it would be "undesirable for me to be in high office with low pay - it subjects a man to great temptations to live above his income, and thus become dishonest..." When you look at some of the shenanigans that take place in elected offices everywhere, that comment gives one pause. Good stuff this week.
I completely agree. Lincoln’s ability to be 3 steps ahead of everyone else - and know how they would react - is almost unbelievable. And the entitlement so many of these politicians have is mind boggling (but shouldn’t be, given our current politicians). I also noticed the line about living above one’s income and becoming dishonest…again, I guess some things never change in politics. It’s both somewhat comforting and disturbing at the same time, if that makes sense.
This book is certainly both of those things — comforting and disturbing — in a number of places. It's why I love reading history. The more you read, the more you realized that not much has changed in terms of how humans behave.
Goodwin really knows how to showcase all of Lincoln's abilities, doesn't she? What's even more remarkable is that she's often doing it through the quotes of contemporaries. It's not just blind hero worship.
I live just outside DC and it’s been especially cool to be reading this book alongside visiting the Capitol and the Arlington House at the cemetery (Robert E Lee’s home) this past week. I also find myself reading this book with Google Maps open half the time — Seward’s hometown, the Blair House, even Lincoln’s place in Springfield. Infusing reading with 3D/virtual visits to these places has made for a great holistic read!
I live in Arlington and have been thinking the same thing! Just looked up Blair house. I am not sure I have ever seen it before in person!
Yes that makes such a difference seeing those places in person! One of my great memories from childhood is visiting Springfield and seeing all the Lincoln sites. Pretty amazing.
A few things jumped out to me this week: Lincoln and Seward are pretty much opposites. I hate all the political shenanigans that go on, then and now. How shrewd and self-controlled Lincoln was. I never knew that there had been fear about the electoral college vote being disrupted in 1860. It makes you think
That era is such a great reminder about how our modern times are not nearly as "unprecedented" as we think (and as the media portrays).
I also did not know there was almost a storming of the capitol to stop the count…it’s crazy to think how much things don’t change. It’s also a reminder that we’ve been through turbulent times many times over. If only we had a Lincoln…
Something that amazes me is how the South, state by state, seceded. Goodwin doesn’t say how it was done. All along I saw this as largely a political difference being argued out in Washington and in the newspapers and in campaign speeches. She mentions a few Senators resigning their seats and going home. Then suddenly the South has a capital city, a President, and a standing army of thousands ready to go to war. I realize this is a political history so far and from the Northern perspective, but I could use some help in understanding how this secession was done. I’ve read a few Civil War histories, but they were military histories with the usual baffling accounts of the 9th Army marching to confront the 12th Division of Regulars and so on. Maps with arrows. This book is really interesting and so well written, but I’m missing the explanation of secession.
Hello Jim----
My understanding is that an Article of Succession is introduced into the state legislature. Delegates or current members of the legislature debate the Article, then it's voted on. If passed, it goes to the governor and, if signed, the state then declares itself no longer part of the Union.
There have been debates at a number of times arguing if it is Constitutional for a state that has been admitted to the Union to succeed. I don't know if this question has been fully answered by a court of law.
The above is my understanding and I could be mistaken. If I am mistaken, please someone correct me.
Thx Ralph. That gives me what I need to see how those States would have gone about seceding from the Union.
We can read the speeches by Sens. Clay, Calhoun, and Webster on the Compromise of 1850. We can also read Douglas' speech where he offered his "compromise". I would have liked to have been in the chamber to hear, first hand, those giants of American history address Congress.
What would it have been like to hear one or more of the Lincoln-Douglas debates for the senate seat?
If only a Time Machine existed!
My goodness, yes great point. The heyday of American speech-making!
Lincoln is so diverse in skill and ability. Goodwin alluded to this in the intro chapter, but these latest chapters crystalize his subtle genius. His ability to foreshadow how things would go and how people would act is almost unsettling. He's a strategist and behavior scientist all wrapped into an unassuming package with high confidence. "He craved the opportunity to accomplish important deeds that would benefit his fellows." Thank goodness for that. He just knew how things needed to go.
It was interesting that when offered cabinet positions, several of his opponents took the "stick it in your ear" stance, really for no other reason than being sore losers. Yet they realized the importance of serving despite the initial power play. I can't - but I must. I won't - but I will. When you think forward to the soldier experience that would come with the war, and the unbending commitment of many - I WILL fight for my cause...these guys end up looking like spoiled children. Seward's expectation that he would essentially pick the cabinet?! ...like Lincoln would hold the title but he would wholly serve the function? Disturbing.
The last thing that caught my eye: in the middle of page 286, Bates comments that it would be "undesirable for me to be in high office with low pay - it subjects a man to great temptations to live above his income, and thus become dishonest..." When you look at some of the shenanigans that take place in elected offices everywhere, that comment gives one pause. Good stuff this week.
I completely agree. Lincoln’s ability to be 3 steps ahead of everyone else - and know how they would react - is almost unbelievable. And the entitlement so many of these politicians have is mind boggling (but shouldn’t be, given our current politicians). I also noticed the line about living above one’s income and becoming dishonest…again, I guess some things never change in politics. It’s both somewhat comforting and disturbing at the same time, if that makes sense.
This book is certainly both of those things — comforting and disturbing — in a number of places. It's why I love reading history. The more you read, the more you realized that not much has changed in terms of how humans behave.
Goodwin really knows how to showcase all of Lincoln's abilities, doesn't she? What's even more remarkable is that she's often doing it through the quotes of contemporaries. It's not just blind hero worship.