I got a little bit of a jumpstart on the book this week – I'm really excited to be reading a non-fiction book with this group, and this one in particular against the backdrop of an election year (by design, of course – great idea, Jeremy!)
Several things in the introduction caught my attention. Here are just a couple:
-- The fact that "As a young man, Lincoln worried that the 'field of glory' had been harvested by the founding fathers, that nothing had been left for his generation but modest ambitions". (Ha!) "Without the march of events that led to the Civil War, Lincoln still would have been a good man, but most likely never would have been publicly recognized as a great man." Not exactly a revelation, but always frustrating to think that such dramatic events are required in order to recognize greatness in a person.
-- Goodwin's distinction between melancholy and depression. Goodwin disputes the idea that Lincoln suffered from clinical depression. Melancholy, she says, is not an illness but an "aspect of one's nature" which "has been recognized by artists and writers for centuries as a potential source of creativity and achievement." As someone who works in a creative field, I've often pondered that "tortured artist" theory, wondered how much validity there is to that theory vs. how much it's a way for us to explain away the darker sides of our idols, in whom we don't necessarily care to see flaws. I'm curious to see how melancholy comes into play in Goodwin's view of Lincoln.
Can't wait to continue reading and see what discussions this book prompts for us!
The points you highlight offer so much to think about. How many other "Lincolns" were/are out there that we know nothing about? Especially at a time when we could use more Lincolns.
I too noticed Godwin’s distinction between depression and melancholy. Lincoln certainly had opportunity to experience depression early in his life, given the deaths and grief and loneliness he coped with. But melancholy as a feature of his temperament will likely be something we see through the course of this book. She goes on to say, “Modern psychiatry regards humour as probably the most mature and healthy means of adapting to melancholy.” And humour has been in the forefront of Lincoln’s public personality so far in this account. I wonder how that will change in the war years ahead.
DKG is a brilliant storyteller telling the story of another brilliant storyteller. How cool is that?! Her stories are so deeply thought out, her perspectives unique, and her prose simply beautiful. She just seems more relatable than many historians. I think it was after this book was released that she was carried onto the stage of one of the late-night shows by a bunch of hunky guys dressed as Lincolns. I saw that and just thought, "This lady is pretty cool." She writes about deep things but can also laugh at herself. There was a documentary about her and her husband that showed bookshelves loaded with books in every room of their house. And they had read so very many of them. So. Dang. Cool. This is going to be a wonderful adventure.
I'm excited to pick up this book with you all, my first new read of this Big Read year! I'm also looking forward to the recently released "The Demon of Unrest" by Erik Larson, which covers the 5 months between Lincoln's election and the start of the Civil War. I'm curious to see how my experience with these books will be shaped by the other... I didn't intend to spend so much time with Lincoln this summer, but here we are! Haven't quite decided if I'll read them simultaneously, back-to-back, or how much space to leave...
I agree! I'm very close to completing his backlist, and he's one of just a handful of authors that I keep tabs on so I can jump on any new books. He does non-fiction so well, but I also enjoyed an audio-only fiction work he released in 2021, No One Goes Alone.
Really looking forward to reading this book in this community! As a European, my knowledge about Abraham Lincoln is not that thorough, so I´m excited to go deeper now. Your summaries, comments and additional information will be very helpful, as always, Jeremy, and I also value everyone´s insights here. Happy reading!
Generally I avoid histories written in recent years because I find today’s authors warp their depiction of the past to fit with today’s comforting popular values. But Goodwin is a top-notch historian, as well as a wonderful author. When she had described the intimate friendships that developed between men, such as with Lincoln and Joshua Speed (pg. 58), that included sharing a bed, she says “Some have suggested that there may have been a sexual relationship between Lincoln and Speed.” Really! Then, after disposing of this flapdoodle, she assures us that “the preoccupation with elemental sex reveals more about later centuries than about the nineteenth.” Excellent, and thank you.
I got a little bit of a jumpstart on the book this week – I'm really excited to be reading a non-fiction book with this group, and this one in particular against the backdrop of an election year (by design, of course – great idea, Jeremy!)
Several things in the introduction caught my attention. Here are just a couple:
-- The fact that "As a young man, Lincoln worried that the 'field of glory' had been harvested by the founding fathers, that nothing had been left for his generation but modest ambitions". (Ha!) "Without the march of events that led to the Civil War, Lincoln still would have been a good man, but most likely never would have been publicly recognized as a great man." Not exactly a revelation, but always frustrating to think that such dramatic events are required in order to recognize greatness in a person.
-- Goodwin's distinction between melancholy and depression. Goodwin disputes the idea that Lincoln suffered from clinical depression. Melancholy, she says, is not an illness but an "aspect of one's nature" which "has been recognized by artists and writers for centuries as a potential source of creativity and achievement." As someone who works in a creative field, I've often pondered that "tortured artist" theory, wondered how much validity there is to that theory vs. how much it's a way for us to explain away the darker sides of our idols, in whom we don't necessarily care to see flaws. I'm curious to see how melancholy comes into play in Goodwin's view of Lincoln.
Can't wait to continue reading and see what discussions this book prompts for us!
Love the point about DKG pointing about the difference between melancholy and depression. That was super interesting indeed. There's actually a book all about that, which sits on my shelf unread (as of yet): https://www.amazon.com/Lincolns-Melancholy-Depression-Challenged-President-ebook/dp/B0085TK3CS/r. Perhaps I'll get to it during these few months!
Interesting -- thanks for mentioning that book! I'll put it on my to-read list also.
The points you highlight offer so much to think about. How many other "Lincolns" were/are out there that we know nothing about? Especially at a time when we could use more Lincolns.
I too noticed Godwin’s distinction between depression and melancholy. Lincoln certainly had opportunity to experience depression early in his life, given the deaths and grief and loneliness he coped with. But melancholy as a feature of his temperament will likely be something we see through the course of this book. She goes on to say, “Modern psychiatry regards humour as probably the most mature and healthy means of adapting to melancholy.” And humour has been in the forefront of Lincoln’s public personality so far in this account. I wonder how that will change in the war years ahead.
DKG is a brilliant storyteller telling the story of another brilliant storyteller. How cool is that?! Her stories are so deeply thought out, her perspectives unique, and her prose simply beautiful. She just seems more relatable than many historians. I think it was after this book was released that she was carried onto the stage of one of the late-night shows by a bunch of hunky guys dressed as Lincolns. I saw that and just thought, "This lady is pretty cool." She writes about deep things but can also laugh at herself. There was a documentary about her and her husband that showed bookshelves loaded with books in every room of their house. And they had read so very many of them. So. Dang. Cool. This is going to be a wonderful adventure.
She is an *incredible* storyteller indeed! Her loooong books are always gripping reads. I don't know how she does it!
I'm excited to pick up this book with you all, my first new read of this Big Read year! I'm also looking forward to the recently released "The Demon of Unrest" by Erik Larson, which covers the 5 months between Lincoln's election and the start of the Civil War. I'm curious to see how my experience with these books will be shaped by the other... I didn't intend to spend so much time with Lincoln this summer, but here we are! Haven't quite decided if I'll read them simultaneously, back-to-back, or how much space to leave...
Yes, I have Erik Larson's new book on my list as well! He's cant-miss, in my opinion.
I agree! I'm very close to completing his backlist, and he's one of just a handful of authors that I keep tabs on so I can jump on any new books. He does non-fiction so well, but I also enjoyed an audio-only fiction work he released in 2021, No One Goes Alone.
Really looking forward to reading this book in this community! As a European, my knowledge about Abraham Lincoln is not that thorough, so I´m excited to go deeper now. Your summaries, comments and additional information will be very helpful, as always, Jeremy, and I also value everyone´s insights here. Happy reading!
So glad to have you joining us! There's actually one somewhat well-known biography of Lincoln that was penned by Lord Charnwood, a Brit. I've never read it, but always kinda been intrigued by what his perspective would be. https://www.amazon.com/Abraham-Lincoln-Biography-Lord-Charnwood/dp/1568330669
Generally I avoid histories written in recent years because I find today’s authors warp their depiction of the past to fit with today’s comforting popular values. But Goodwin is a top-notch historian, as well as a wonderful author. When she had described the intimate friendships that developed between men, such as with Lincoln and Joshua Speed (pg. 58), that included sharing a bed, she says “Some have suggested that there may have been a sexual relationship between Lincoln and Speed.” Really! Then, after disposing of this flapdoodle, she assures us that “the preoccupation with elemental sex reveals more about later centuries than about the nineteenth.” Excellent, and thank you.